The New Idea and New World – Last Winter Suggestion

Activity Forums Side Projects Discussions Last Winter The New Idea and New World – Last Winter Suggestion

This topic contains 42 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  Tyrud 3 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 43 total)
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  • #632

    Arise
    Participant

    Bring back the suggestion thread and load the old forum link here.

    All hunter, start rock and roll here. >o<

    #1436

    Arise
    Participant

    As we start up, so we set a topic: ” If Last Winter is going to have a full new version, what you wish to change or add?

    My first view will focus on the survival and wild hunting live, as the game spirit of last winter is survive!

    The following is my thought:

    —————————————————————

    Making a fire in the wild is the key to survive, it keep the dangerous animal away, also provide heat and a way to cook the food and disinfection the water. Fire have many use, but make a fire in the wild will never be that easy.

    As what it should be, fire system in the Last winter should be re-design to close to as real as possible, in order to make sure the survival function work just like what we have in mother Nature.

    Make Fire:

    Main Item require: Tinder(dry), wood(dry)
    Other Item require: Silix and Pirite, Drill(Bow Drill or hand drill need), Small Wood plate(Bow Drill or hand drill need)
    Skill require: Fire skill

    *Fire skill is a skill specific for the fire making. In the old version of Last Winter, fire envolve in the survival skill and can share with fish cutting and frog catching, this is not real. So I suggestion to divide this skill out.
    *This making fire process seems much more complex, yeah but it is true in the wild. I believe this will not be too hard if we put the day longer then before. The skill and knowledge still will be the key factor here.

    Fire Making Step:

    Step1: Collect dry wood and found(Or make) some Tinder.

    Step2: Build the construction of your camp fire. Different construction require different resource to build(from wood log, stick, even board) , be sure you have what you need around.

    Step3: Start to make fire with your own equipment. All fire making up to same ability, just have different successful chance. Hand Drill -> Bow Drill -> Silix and Pirite ( Highest chance )

    *When you are collecting the wood and tinder in the wild, mostly they are wet, especially the Last Winter story is inside the Forest mostly. So the wood log will be mostly wet and with less dry resource. ( This is up to season, weather condition and water condition.)
    *If you put the wet Tinder in your inventory enough longer, it will bring back to dry tinder after a period of time, as you can put it in your pocket.
    *making a drill require crafting skill, and build the construction of camp fire require the wood building skill.
    *The construction of camp fire have different use and different hardness. Make a easy fire is simple for starter, but after you become expert, you can build other camp fire to improve the ability like cooking or heating even to let the fire last longer.(This will discuss when we come to Camp fire system.) This require you have a good ability on wood building skill.
    *Player can use knife and try to craft some tinder from the wood, this require the crafting skill.
    *After camp fire is on, even the wet wood can be use as fuel.
    *You can put the wet wood around your camp fire, to let them become dry with fire heat.
    ———————————————————-

    This is the first part of fire system, more will come soon. please post any comment please. >o<

    #1438

    Snarst
    Participant

    Allow us to put out the fire by kicking dirt or at least pouring water on it.

    This may sound cruel but a chance to misidentify mushrooms and berries. It should be reserved for critical failures but I worry that it will lead to many people being killed by the random number generator gods.

    #1439

    urbzz
    Keymaster

    Good to hear early request for LW. Just to feed the hype here’s the sprite sheet for the new LW

    At this point everything is on the table. Making a fire is a nice and complex activity and a nice test of survival skills. I like your idea and also what I’ve seen in the game Long Dark where you have a igniter, a accelerant and a fuel and those 3 items together combined with your skill creates a % chance to light a proper fire.

    Dying from a poisonous plant is rare. It make you blind, make you piss blood, start a fever or shut down your kidneys but straight death is rare. But there is a lot of room for fun and entertainment in miss ID’ing plants 🙂

    #1444

    Reid
    Moderator

    Currently taking a course in Anthropology, and almost every class brings me ideas for LW because we often discuss basic aspects of survival.

    For instance, the different types of what are known as adaptive strategies:

    – Foraging (normal hunting/gathering going on in LW with animals and plants)
    – Horticulture (planting and carrying seeds so that you can keep that berry supply going)
    – Agriculture (being able to grow some crops and breed livestock)

    Foraging is classic Last Winter in the sense that you are a true coureur de bois roaming about and hunting/searching for your meals. The game would allow you to travel large distances to follow the hunting grounds as the seasons change.

    Speaking of distances, here is my vision for the area you have to explore within:

    The pic above is a very crude map I found, but I think it would make a diverse and amazing world for Last Winter. Having done the Grand Portage and camped in both the Boundary Waters and Lake Superior, I cannot contain my excitement for the mere possibility of gameplay in that area. Plus I currently live in New England, so travelling into that area would be super neat too.

    Anyways, while foraging is customary in LW, I think it would make sense to have the player eventually become wealthy enough (if they can survive obviously) to start their own trading post, hire a few fellow woodsman, and sort of gradually expand his/her influence. This includes a more advanced and permanent housing situation, and proper farming. The idea is that how much personal work you have to do for your food correlates with your general mobility…

    #1447

    Arise
    Participant

    Nice, boss( @urbzz ) and @reid.

    For some of reason I believe the Last Winter also have many potential ability to make it become one of the best game we ever had as wild survive is very complex. >o<

    Here upload some resource I read:

    Wildwood Survival
    Stone Age Skill

    I guess this can help us build the survival part and body condition of Last Winter, mostly the death come from the mother nature. ( Men vs other men is other factor, it should put to another one. >o< )

    whatever it is, I will keep rock and roll, from where I start this community activity. XD

    #1452

    Arise
    Participant

    Multiple Timer

    There is one thing I wish to point out, is the multiple time. In the previous Last Winter, player only allow to do one thing in same time. It is not convenient also not real. In the wild survive, the key is how to use the time wisely, means some job can be done in the same time.

    Like cooking, it is the mostly key things in the last winter. But when you are roast something, it does not mean you can’t do anything. Like crafting, crafting require player hand to do, so you should not be able to doing other thing by your hand.

    So I believe the multiple timer about action panel here is needed, otherwise smoke something require all day and you can’t find the time to do other things.

    *When player are cooking, they can leave the fire to do other thing, the cooking timer will keep run. You can back to near the fire and click the fire, it will tell you how much time this job will finished. The success ability is still up to cooking skill after the job done. But if you pass the time, even you have 100% on the food prepare skill, it will only left the burning food or even carbon(Means nothing left.)

    Pause Timer

    Another timer is pause timer. Actually building the house or Canoe require longer time, it may take days to complete the job. So timer pause is a vital setting here. It means you can stop the job you are doing now, the system will remember where you do, when you start again the process, things will not restart but form the previous time you stop the job.

    With this setting, player can do every job as wise as they wish. The discussion here is about the two option to doing the job. One way is to build the large subject as lots of part so player can build them step by step. Another is what I suggest for. The advantage what I suggest for is this idea can easily do for all action.

    *fishing, fishing is a one time job, so give up or complete it, it is simple, there are no partial fishing. We have lots of job don’t have pause timer.

    *Making a Bow, this require time, and have to done with enough time. This job can pause whatever you want, maybe there will have something much more important require you leave the place to do something, like a angry bear or flash flood.

    *Making a door, this is the same like making a bow, but it require longer time. And you have to do it step by step, every step can be stop and start whatever you want.

    *If your job been stop, it will create a item like Non-Complete wood Bow in your inventory.

    (The problem here is is lots of item file will cause problem with the game engine, and sure it will have lots of job to prepare the file. But sure with this way we will have very good animation stuff here. The code job problem need boss to review. @urbzz )

    #1457

    Arise
    Participant

    The Inventory:

    About the new inventory I have a new suggestion, it is about to create a new setting on equipment which I once mention in the Recon suggestion thread.

    The limit of inventory will come with three part. Space, Bulk and Weight!

    The weight is already in side the last winter system, it will limit the speed player go if they have large number of equipments in their back. And I am going to much deeper side.

    Bulk is the volume of equipment or item, if this item is larger then the container(I will mention later), you only be able to carry wish your hand( Of course this will cause the trouble while you are walking ), tow hand is the limited, so player have to think with this problem.

    ———————————-

    Single men:

    Now we put the single men inventory space to limited, as it only can use pocket to carry anything, so bulk will be limited.

    Container:

    Container is a new system I wish to involve to the inventory system, it can be make, drop, pick, buy, trade. Every container will also require the bulk except backpack.

    About the backpack, Once you pick up, it will require you for one inventory space, and increase the large Bulk limit for your player limit and few weight limit(As good backpack design can let people carry much more weight on this back) In theory it should have unlimited space, but we will still follow the true on coding job. You can put anything into your backpack, just make sure the Bulk will not exceed the limit of the backpack. ( Of course the weight can’t exceed the limit you can carry too. )

    *Container can be lots of thing, glass bottle, Fabric also can be a container, it is about how much they can carry. This will up to how to expand the choice.

    *Player can also put the container into larger container, as it can open and open just like real thing.

    Why this setting is needed? it is common if you wish to hunt a animal, you can directly put down your backpack and carry with your Bow or Musket to hunting with your fastest speed, and simple bring something back with your hand. No need to drop most of equipment you have, that is the key point. And the main reason why I suggest so.

    #1458

    Arise
    Participant

    Collecting System

    I do know that new last winter will have a different interface on most of action. Such as player don’t need to click command “ pick the rock “ but simply click on the rock then it will be get.

    Just point out one problem this function should have a switch, which can on or off, maybe just like a status “ Peace” and “War” mod. Give it a search mod I believe will be good. It can prevent you miss open some command while walking, like click the rock or flower. (that will be annoying) Something you don’t wish to up. Maybe this can combine with the hot key may that the game be better.

    This is another way, When I press and hold the hot key “C” All of command will be able to use on the ground like rock, stick, mushroom. If I don’t press the hot key, it will not doing anything but walk to there. Maybe add a notice when someone continuous click something but can’t collect it, it will show a message to let the player know how to do.

    “ You should press and hold the hot key C to collect the resource! ”

    This one is just a note, not care it too much!

    #1459

    Mexican Batman
    Participant

    I wish to add these suggestions that I mentioned on the other forums. I think they should have Rangers and American Indian rangers . Why do I say that because before during that time Rangers depended on Indians as teachers. I think the classes should only be unlocked after a certain achievement though. Back then the conventional colonial armies weren’t effective at fighting American Indians. So the settlers in the area got help from their Indian allies to make a new military unit. The Ranger, they used American Indian tactics and combined them with European technologies. I am not sure what should be done to unlock them but something difficult like with the Paladin or Viking in Stwalt.

    #1460

    Arise
    Participant

    Well, it sounds reasonable, with the achievement it should be easy!

    ————————————

    View System:

    I believe the spot function which we use in the MNBR and MNB3 can be use here. If possible, the landscape and feature can use the same setting like STWALT, which require player close to show something. So get in a map does not guarantee you be able to find the water even there are some water feature.

    *Spot

    In the Last Winter, the animal and other person is the key factor. No matter with the hunting or dangerous animal, the spot will make the game much close to the real situation. Hunting is not that easy, especially it require you have a eyes on it. The most big problem: God view will be able to remove from this game once we involve this system in.

    The sight usually will be limit in the forest, of course the plain should not have view problem so we can make everything much close to the real environment situation.

    *Show

    It is like the STWALT, we will not know what is there before we close enough, it maybe a river, pond, hole, or even a cliff. I believe this will make the game become much more interesting. Not sure if the farming function and plant grow will be hard to get in this game or not, but if this work then hunting and searching water will not that easy but much real and funny also require more ability. In old last winter, there are no problem on finding a water, and in the real wild, finding water maybe require people walk for halve day or more, even in the mountain with many rivers.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by  Arise.
    #1462

    Arise
    Participant

    Tracking

    Tracking is the key ability in the wild for hunting, so I wish to bring the old idea from MNBR. The foot print! In the last winter, we do have something very like the foot print, it tell player what animal sticking around or here is a common route for animal. Maybe it close to water resource or have some potential food source.

    Like what we have in the MNBR, the VC will leave the foot print, so does the ranger if they don’t wear the sandal. Ranger can study the foot print in order to know some message. Like how many? What VC it is? How long? The same, we put this into Last Winter.

    Every animal and people will leave the foot print, including you. The foot print will auto disappeared when time pass or raining. If the animal across the river, there will be no foot print. From the foot print, Player can try to know some information from this animal. Another potential subject for player is the dropping from animal, it also can help the player know what is around.

    *What Kind of Animal?
    *How long since it left this footprint or dropping.
    *Where did it go?

    Maybe can add more function but this is up to how complex we will put the element on different animal.

    One of another setting is remove the multiple exp gain from same tracking, player will only get one chance to have skill level up in first time it search. Even it can search many times in order to find the answer, it will not add exp. Once the tracking information be found already, player can’t search again, even the message is not enough.

    For example:

    “ after you search a foot print, you find out this is a bear, but it did not tell you where did it go? You will not be able to search again to gain more detail.”

    *When the rain fall down, foot print will be clean after rain over!
    *All of tracking on foot print or dropping all require the tracking skill.

    ( The key problem on this part will be the game engine loading, as if there are lots of animal walking around, system have to continuous moving those animal in same time, the same problem on Recon and MNB3, and it is a big problem, need some discussion about coding. )

    #1508

    Arise
    Participant

    Body Status:

    This one is a big part, we all know the most complex system is human body, so does the men in the last winter.

    What we common have in previous Last Winter:

    *Full
    *Hungry
    *Thirsty
    *Feeling down
    *Drunk
    *Food Poison
    *Sleepy
    *Worm

    And be sure we need more.

    In the previous Last winter the most big problem on the survival is it seems the temperature don’t kill the men, the example will be you can without clothe to walk around and even go into river, so that is why I wish to point out this.

    *Hypothermia

    It is a condition about the body temperature condition, mostly come from the cold weather or raining. Falling to the water will also cause this condition if the wet clothe is continuous wearing. Bring the heat equation example first:

    ———————-

    *Player have body temperature X.
    *Environment temperature is Y.
    *The clothe will provide Z heat score as it will store the heat
    *Player have a heat bank A
    *The player will expand (X-Y-Z) heat score to air if it don’t wear anything, every timer.
    *Once the lose heat more then 0.10A then player become light Hypothermia and get -5%, once lose 0.15A it become dangerous Hypothermia get -15%, after 0.20A the player will dead.
    *The wet clothe will give +10Z instead of -Z, the wet cloth will expand the heat very quickly.
    *When you close to a fire, the heat expand equation will stop, and the heat bank will bring back to max. once you leave the fire the equation will start up again.
    —————————–

    It is just a example, means we need a way to calculate the human body status. I would say that we have to find a way to combine all body status together in order to create a real human survival game. There are some factor like “ cold or hot weather will lose much more water then normal “ or “ when it is cold, it is much more easy to feel hungry then normal “ something like that.

    Sure this will be a big step on last winter if we handle well. >o<

    #1511

    urbzz
    Keymaster

    Amazing suggestions.

    – I absolutely agree with the hypothermia theory.
    – We indeed learn a lot in Recon about tracking and its mechanics. A track our some poop on the ground will be the starts of an adventure if you are a good tracker.

    Something to keep in mind. I really wish to make this LW accent on traveling. In the old one the game would choke to death trying to save all the leaves, twigs and spot of grass the adventurer comes by. I come to realise not all of this is important to save since most of the time the player would not go back on his tracks and keep exploring and moving to his destination (either be the mythical 0,0 or Quebec).

    In the old game an early implementation of the regions was done. If you go North enough you encounter polar bears and arctic foxes. If you go South enough you encounter more Deers and englishmen. If you go West enough you get to the sacred great lake sare where Beavers and high value pelts are abundant. This is definitely something I want to keep in because the achievement of traveling a far distance is second to none.

    I’m very excited to start dropping some code on Lw soon after MNb3. Coding the base game will take no time and as the old one we will add features as we progress along.

    #1516

    Maharbal Barca
    Participant

    Regarding the conditions/body status, I feel these need to be static, and not just pop up when we get too low. We need to be able to see how close we are to dehydration/hunger ahead of time instead of it popping up on us at random (this obviously doesn’t apply to things like worms, that’s your fault for eating that odd looking mushroom)

    I like the having a constant “search” mode on, however I think the only stipulation is that you must be walking, not running/sprinting for it to work, and success/ the amount of things you are able to find are still determined by your observation/sight skill.
    Now regarding farming, I still think that farming should not be a means of major subsistence for us. Rather, farming on the small scale should be allowed, with only a few crops available to us. We are courier des bois, hunters, adventurers. Not farmers (I will most likely post something more lengthy on this in the future.

    And here’s just a few things I recall from my old posts (shame that it appears they are lost forever.)

    Chat history- a lot can happen sometimes, and the chat that dropps from the top of the screen can disappear even quicker, without the player being able to read it. Have a chat/action history so we can see what has been said.
    Berry bushes that stay- once you pick berries, the bush stays and the berries may grow back
    Fruit bearing trees- self explanatory. Can harvest these for something to eat, even multiple times in some cases, but take much longer to grow back.
    Roads/dirt paths- these are mostly visual, and connect major towns with trade posts, etc.
    Resupplying trade posts- If you hang around a trade post long enough, you may end up buying everything you need. At some point in time, the trade post will be resupplied and get new items to trade and sell.
    Huts- Better than a tend, not quite a house. Can stand up to the elements a bit better than the former, but not as cozy/spacious as the latter.

    I’ll put up more as they come back to me, but sooooo glad LW is still on the table, keep up the great work!
    I also will see if I can find my post on clothes and warmth, just to get more conversation going.

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