German Units and AI Discussion

Activity Forums Mud and Blood 3 Suggestions German Units and AI Discussion

This topic contains 9 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of vipility vipility 1 week, 2 days ago.

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  • #955
    Profile photo of Arise
    Arise
    Participant

    After few round about the MNB3 and Skirmish Line. Now I start up with some idea about the MNB3, for the new German unit.

    German unit:

    *Panzer IV
    *Mortar
    *Flak88
    *HMG
    *Truck
    *Infantry

    Currently we only have different weapon to divide German Infantry unit, so this give me some interesting idea. In the MNB2, the German don’t have Medic so they don’t have medic. Well, finally the day come, now both German and Alley will disable in the battlefield. How about the German Medic?!

    German Medic:
    *German Medic equip with pistol and seldom use it.
    *German Medic have a red cross on his helmet.
    *German Medic will run to the disable German soldier to save him or heal the men which get hurt in the battlefield.
    *German medic run fast as he is light.
    *German medic heal 1/2 slow then Alley medic to make sure the game balance.

    Another is a new factor can be add in the game, facing direction. It means when you face somewhere, the behind attack will be the most easy to kill your, as you are very hard to find it before it shoot you.

    Facing Direction:
    *The facing direction will affect the soldiers ability to avoid the bullet hit. ( This still can be reduce by exp, as a old soldiers always have six feeling about danger. )
    *System will simply detect about the front, flank, back and give different penalty on protection.

    *This factor can lead a surrounding box or box tactic be much more deadly, also affect the sneak attack in real battlefield.
    *Facing direction also affect the spotting chance, so when someone flanking, other one will have much less chance to spotted the target.

    And comes to the hiding tunnel German. This is the idea come from many place, from fury to MNB2 and MNBR.

    *These unit call flanking unit. They will hide until you pass through. ( Normally )
    *they always hide in a small tunnel which is very hard to be spotted, tunnel and the German flanking unit both. ( Just like in Recon )
    *When you pass through, they will go out and hit you from the back.
    *If there is a MG hide in there, the MG gunner will not go out but will continuous shooting at your men.
    *Scout Scan skill can somehow show up this kind of threat.
    *The Tunnel German will run out if the Shell directly hit on it or very close on it, no matter it is spotted or not.

    #965
    Profile photo of Lance
    Lance
    Moderator

    Enemy Medic unit would be evil in a way as shooting them seams cruel.
    But then again they shoot our medic so why not.

    I am strongly against soldier facings in MNB3. This is not Recon and I do not want to manage 6 or more men’s facing constantly so that they engage something especially since you would need to turn them around each time they hit their movement destination since they do not fire on the move. Way to big of an hassle.

    hiding tunnel German
    ee No. Just no. Better be German Flankers. he he MNB2 revenge.
    Simply let a few German Soldiers spawn from the side. Could be anywhere on the field but then they would head towards your closest unit.

    German soldier suggestion:

    Funker. (Signaller)
    Unlike the US forces the Germans did not have the means to equip every larger squad with a Signaller but in MNB3 there should be some of them standing by with support calls similar to what our Signaller can call in.

    Offizier. (Officer)
    Gives nearby troops a +5%to all rolls. Calls more support over time. Unpins nearby troops every 20 seconds. Can call in a Vehicle like a Tank, Half-Track or a Sd.kfz.222. *muu haa hha haa hha haaa.*

    #967
    Profile photo of Mrprofilen
    Mrprofilen
    Participant

    Maybe MnB3 will be the game where we start to see even more deadly and “better” armored vehicles deployed by the German Army during WW2, hypothetically speaking (because whilst the Tiger II had higher zoom/range, it was prone to breaking down and was very slow).

    Deadly LATE game armored vehicles that saw action during WW2 (especially during Normandy)

    Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. B (Tiger II) – A deadly tank from range, the Tiger II saw combat from Normandy (1944) in the Western front to the Eastern Front. Proving prone to flank attacks by T-34 and IS-2, and ammo explosions in the turret, the Tiger II proved weak but also strong.

    Panzerj√§ger Tiger Ausf. B (Jagtiger) – Another deadly tank that suffered from being extremely slow and heavy. The Jagtiger also lacked experienced crews, leading to more tank losses than through actual combat (however, in combat the crews got it killed due to inexperienced troops). Not many were produced, and probably shouldn’t be added to the game. But, should be kept in mind as an idea since it was used from 1944-1945.

    Panzerkampfwagen V Panther (most likely the Ausf G. variant) – Oh boy. This one is one I am surprised wasn’t in MnB2. The Panther was a medium tank produced to combat the new Soviet tanks, the T-34. This tank was quick, and had substantial fire power for a medium tank. This medium tank was practically a Tiger with less side armor.

    Now, I could add more suggestions, but this list might get a little too long. These, in my opinion, would obviously be contenders for being added (if balanced correctly, however the first two options would be a pain in the ass to take out, especially if we only get a damn Stuart. Damn Stuarts…)

    #968
    Profile photo of Arise
    Arise
    Participant

    More vehicle must be good. >o< @mrprofilen I do love those Tank to stand in front of my troop. It is going be a tough day.

    Well, I still can not sure why @lance you don’t like the facing direction and hiding enemy idea.

    For the Facing direction, it is not about a Recon or not. It is a system. Soldiers will auto turn to the target when they found it so this is not the problem, If you will feel tired that is because you wish to keep every head on the right place to max your potential ability, but that is up to player. As a commander can not high concentrate on that, it will back to normal.

    Why I suggest so? It is because I want to add a factor really can represent the tactic to both Alley and German. When I am in the St-Lo against the German in the city, my team lose cause will usually be the truck. While I am contact with the enemy in front of my line, a truck bring the troop to my back and hit me. But actually I am not die by the surrounding, I die is just because the numbers. ( Well, some of part is by surrounding as I can not retreat, and panic is another problem… )

    In the real battlefield, surrounding is so deadly is because you have to defense everywhere, but enemy only have to care the front line. So they get less casualties and you lose the exchange of fire because you lose your men too quickly. When firing power is the same, the numbers change the war. When the height is the same, the direction you have to face, should be as less as it can be.

    This factor will change the combat situation when you are been surrounding. With that, soldiers have to defense both side and easy been shot. Also affect the Recon job, make the flanking or even the surrounding tactic can be use for Alley. Scout can be more useful as it can check the German moving route and direction, even the kill with hand to hand combat, because the first strike is defenseless. Can combine with Spec Ops fast moving and stealth ability. Maybe can give officer an ability to decrease the penalty as he can keep soldier concentrate. ( See the Band Of Brother?)

    This also can show why the sniper and hiding enemy is so deadly. Because the soldier can not keep high alert all the day, only the first shoot will be deadly. after that, all soldiers will get into high alert and face the direction where the gun shoot come from. The sniper is the unit can make sure the first shot.

    The same, why hiding and wait the alley to pass through? It is a classical trap been use in every war. Hit the enemy from the back will be the best way to kill as more as possible. Flanker is needed, but it does not mean we can not have hiding enemy.

    Shell can also involve, as the men can hear and see where the Mortar shell or RPG come from, they will act fast. So while we give the penalty for the back and flank, we also give the benefit to the front. Make the soldiers can act well, the same as to the German unit.

    I only concern is ” Will this be too hard to add in? ” That is a big problem, so this is just a crazy idea. If @urbzz is going to push the MNB3 as good as possible, why not give some real crazy idea here?!

    That is all my though about Facing Direction.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Profile photo of Arise Arise.
    #3145
    Profile photo of Reid
    Reid
    Moderator

    Better units like SS if a good suggestion and a topic bouncing around the tester crowd. Now we need to be smart here. It is in the plans to randomize the troops in the future. This add another variable to the mechanics making the game even more deep. Troop would be jager, grenadiers, panzer, sturm, volks, ss ect.. if we use infantry types as progress incentive we add difficulties or worst prevent that feature to become a standard random factor, so for now and for these reasons, not a fan of it.

    -urb

    I agree about the different enemy types based on progression being tricky. For infantry I think it would be interesting if the German unit types mirrored the skills avialable to the player. Meaning the Germans would have riflemen, medics, gunners, signallers, etc.

    The probability for a certain unit type spawning could then be nudged based on who you have in your squad. Meaning if you go heavy on gunners and snipers the Germans will increase the amount of gunners and snipers in their ranks. The nudge should be slight though, especially when considering something like the Medic challenge potentially causing too many Germans to spawn as medics…

    #3150
    Profile photo of Tyrud
    Tyrud
    Moderator

    Keeping the chances of different enemy units spawning random seems fine to me, as it helps breed URB moments (SS on the beach, anyone?). That said, much like there are historical charts/values for enemy equipment currently, it would be cool to see the spawn probabilities tweaked in certain locations to represent a unit’s historical presence or lack of presence in an area. It would still be random, but some of the units that are supposed to be there would pop up with a bit more frequency.

    #3159
    Profile photo of Kacpo
    Kacpo
    Participant

    Agree with Tyrud. Appearance of different enemy units should be dependant both on player progress AND scenario/battlefield/day.
    Few other suggestions for units:
    Jeager infantry
    -better accuracy
    -uses GW43 and K98. no panzerfausts. Often have flares.
    -rare. More cmmon through early-mid game, where enemy is still somewhat organised.
    -rarely has tank support

    Panzergrenadiers
    -medicore combat skills
    -uses variety of weapons. Reasonably equipped with grenades, Fausts and flares.
    -medium. appear through entire game. Standard enemy, comparable to ones we face now.
    -highest (still low) chance to come with tanks

    Volkstrum
    -poor skills
    -variety of weapons. Unlikely to have higher grade weapons (GW43, STG44, Mg42). Poorly equipped with explosives.
    -more common the closer you get to germany
    -random chance with vechicles

    Fallschirmjäger / Luftlande
    -medium accuracy, very aggresive tactics
    -SMGs, STGs and dreaded FG42. Heavily equipped with grenades and Panzerfausts.
    -Appear on few specyfic locations
    -No armor support. often flanks.

    SS
    -slightly higher than average combat skills. High morale.
    -No specyfics in weapons. Medium equipement.
    -Your “punish unit”, appearing more often the more ahead you are. More common near the end of the game.
    -Higher than average chance to come with armor. Might launch a flanking attack.

    As for vechicles, I beleive that we’ll see an Sdkfz halftracs, some recon cars, maybe a truck or artillery tractor. I don’t think that more tanks are necessary, and would rather consider them second priority.
    Now, each of those formations might have soldiers fulfilling different roles, such as officers, medics, Mg gunners and others. Unlike MnB2 where they were classified as different units, here I hope to see different enemy formations utilizing variety of weaponry and tactics. (I.E: Grenadier snipers, Jeager snipers, SS snipers. Volkstrum MG, Luftlande MG, ETC.)

    Also, appearance of one formation, does not exclude other. You might run into grenadiers holding the line, mixed with volks, and suddenly get rushed by SS from the flank. (although more than 2 formations in one field should not happen too often.)

    One more thing regarding enemy formations; while enemy appearance might be more or less common, when they do appear, I’d prefer to see entire squads, instead of single soldiers. It would be extreamly rare to have just one soldier lost his way on the front and hang up with other unit. Possible, but rare.

    Also, disagree with front/back/rear. It might make sense agains vechicles (different armor layers) but not against human.
    However, I do see the point. Flanking should (unless it already does) negate any bonuses received by hiding behind directional cover, such as walls or barricades.
    Cover such as craters, buildings or trenches would be still effective, though.

    #3160
    Profile photo of DevilPup29
    DevilPup29
    Participant

    I haven’t seen too much game play of MNB3 so far, but I think that the SS should be like the Anti-SOG teams in Recon. Heavily Armed, Hard to Kill, and can take you out easily. Perhaps even Motorized Infantry? They come with Halftracks, lightly armed, and can quickly storm an area and take out your forces. I think it would be if the AI did this; When you start off at the beach, Opposition is Medium/Heavy, as you get deeper into France, Opposition gets lighter and sometimes you will encounter heavily armed troops. Once you get into Germany itself, Opposition gets Heavy with you fighting Volkstrum, SS, Tanks, and Fallschirmjagers. Maybe even something like a chalk in Recon, where the units you have in one mission, you can take with you into another mission, because to me, getting a unit all upgraded and everything, just to loose him gets annoying.

    #3161
    Profile photo of DevilPup29
    DevilPup29
    Participant

    Addition to the Halftrack units, they would deploy around 3-5 Halftracks and would drop a squad of 10 Germans (with a Machine gunner and a Medic) They would be quickly deployed into the Battlefield and would cause you a VERY, VERY, VERY large problem, maybe they could have SS Units onboard?

    #4120
    Profile photo of vipility
    vipility
    Participant

    A Flamethrower of sorts.

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