Skills, Weapons and Ranking-Up Suggestions Changes Discussion

Activity Forums Mud and Blood 3 Suggestions Skills, Weapons and Ranking-Up Suggestions Changes Discussion

This topic contains 43 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  Lance 5 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #836

    Arise
    Participant

    New thread start up! The New element discussion.

    So we can simply put the old discussion back to here as the MNB3 have only last very few element to add, then Beta will be release. As what we mention before, the key point of MNB3 is it’s skill system and specialty, Bring the new skill upgrade system to the game should be put into the conversation now.

    Back to the game, Following the original concept of MNB3:

    *No ammo count!
    *Skill be able to have different power, can be anything which follow the historical data.
    *Skill can be active, passive.

    For the weapon, everything is good!

    Here is the old forum data!

    #839

    Lance
    Moderator

    With the help of a good old friend here I have a bright idea to share.
    You know how urbzz said that there could be plenty of skills available to each class but only so many active that the game does not get to complicated/ game-field crowded.

    So how about a Main Skill with Sub-Skills.
    This may work better with some classes then others. For starters;
    Officer >> First Skill >> Orders. Hitting this opens a drop down of possible orders to give.
    These can be any sort of movement related or effect orders effecting the entire squad like Unpin/ Moral Boost #should be one and the same# (GET-UP and fight!), Charge, Fall-Back, Get-Down (all-pinned) Suppressive-Fire (all empty their clips on randomly selected enemies) …stuff like that.
    All share the same cool-down timer as it is one skill.

    These Submenus would drastically help in reducing pop-up space over the game field that I think should be reduced even further.
    There more there are the less we see and the greater the miss-clickings.
    It may not be possible to remove pop ups out of the game field by creating a row along the side but they could be smaller, transparent, closer together like blocks or something along that line.

    #947

    Lance
    Moderator

    About game balancing.
    Currently I feel that high lvl GIs are like high rank Rangers. A bit to OP vs the “normal” enemy.
    The game currently counters this by increasing the enemy XP (similar to mnb2) per continuous advanced field+days ahead (-for days behind) and maybe your profile rank.
    #this formula is pure assumption so do not quote me on it#
    However the actual fighting could be more fun if it does not come down to who gets the first aimed shot off wins.

    One simple way to make combat better at high tier is to generally lower all rifle (max) skills a bit.
    I would say 15% off would be a good test value. So a Medic would still get 15% as not to be totally useless but a sniper gets a higher reduction of about 80 or 85%.
    Right now a maxed weapon tier + rank Marksman is a one-shot-over-normal-range-killer that can even negate all terrain with his skills.
    But all other classes can become seemingly to good of shoots too. Even a Medic can be send to the top to mop up most enemies once maxed.
    While I have no problem that any soldier could become a super soldier it should not be automatic at some point.

    To not forget that this topic points towards both sides.
    German soldiers are also OP at some point. Again; Nothing against Super Soldiers but they should not become the standard after a few fields of play.
    Not only Rifle Skill wise but also Reaction Speed wise.

    The reaction speed of enemies is just to high at times. We can not perfectly stop at the max engagement range (as soon as spotted) or from out of LOS to get the fastest shot in like the game can.
    Again on our side with a Scout, free LOS, max rank and somewhat good ranged weapons (anything above pistols or Stens) we can kill most enemies (with almost any soldier class) even before they see us.
    So basically a small reduction of reaction time as well.

    #961

    urbzz
    Keymaster

    Good input. Maybe just increase the dice range that is being rolled right now from 100 to 150 maybe.

    #966

    Lance
    Moderator

    Maybe just increase the dice range that is being rolled right now from 100 to 150 maybe
    LOL I think I once suggested those exact values.

    I can not help but to feel like the Officer is kind of useless until the 4th upgrade is spend on him unlocking the Stuart Tank.
    Unpin and Moral Boost should be passive skills in my view. Would be a lot better as the passive 5% defense stance that I never intentionally use cause it is random timed so it is almost never available when needed and the idea is to advance so it goes away the moment I move.
    – He could have a lot more passive skills like randomly giving everyone 1 XP.
    – ??? to tired to think … more later.

    #1150

    russames
    Participant

    if he gave passive xp we all know someone would just get an officer then set in the back of the map waiting until all his men are max rank.

    – In a side note the areas you fight in a lot of dirt and sand could get in gun ejectors, so maybe if a near miss is accomplished it has a chance of jamming the gun depending on the gun.

    #1151

    russames
    Participant

    what I was thinking is as your characters become more veteran your gun would jam less and get unjammed faster if you decide to implement what I said above.

    #1153

    Hyyppa
    Moderator

    Officer passive giving xp: I feel that might be fairly good passive. Combat xp on a single leg gives around 10xp making it nothing more than nice little bonus. Sitting at the start zone causes heavy resistance to build up further ahead and once off-map support is in, artillery barrages start thinning out the idle section. Officer passive giving 1xp sounds good to me as long as it is rare thing. Or perhaps he could double the battlefield xp.

    I don’t think the near miss mechanic would add to the game. The gamecode would only become heavier and the current jamming mechanic basically contains enough to be believable. And xp already lowers jam clearance time.

    #1155

    urbzz
    Keymaster

    Soldiers already use their experience to unjam weapons faster!!

    #1162

    Lance
    Moderator

    Weapons balancing suggestion. And current review.
    We have plenty of different weapons in MNB3 but some seem to perform so bad that they are practically useless while most rifles are sniper worthy with enough rifle-skill.

    – Pistol. Almost impossible to get a hit in with this even at high rifle skill and with better ammunition.
    At point blank a whole magazine can get spend on a target but not a single bullet will ever hit unless rifle skill is about 40+ and then it will never kill the enemy.
    Also the jamming is way to high for such a weapon.
    # If range effectiveness can not include CQC/ Short-Range under 30 pix then increase the damage to possible 110 hp so that there will at least be some chance that a stray bullet can actually kill.

    – Shot-Gun; on the other hand should have about the same effective range (IRL) as a Pistol but here it is a great killer up to medium range once Rifle Skill has been upgraded a bit.
    At high rifle the chance to get a kill at long range is still to high.
    # Change that past effective range the gun gets only a 1/5th rifle chance to hit anything and no pinning.

    – Sten-Gun. This seams balanced at long range but in CQC it is very poor. A bit of a hit chance increase could help this pee shooter.

    – Carbine (US version) is so bad even at close range that I do anything to get around using this gun seriously. The better ROF over other rifles is negligible.
    A maxed rank Rifleman can get a few hits in but since they are usually not deadly it matters little.

    – M3 Grease Gun. Actually a good weapon. It can be used to pin enemies at any range effectively almost as good as the Gunner can without the target switching.
    At shorter range it can decently kill with a bit of a Skill upgrade for most soldiers due to the number of bullet hits you can get.

    – Tommy-Gun. Very good all around weapon as long as you have some 30+rifle skill.
    If not then it is like the Sten or M3 namely a good pinner but nothing more.

    – BAR is similar to the Tommy-Gun with less pinning but a lot better killing ability if you hit the target.
    The if is the Rifle Skill again that needs to be around 40+ to use this effectively due to the small mag size.

    – Springfield. The GI’s sniper rifle. This is actually a very good long ranged weapon but the low ROF makes this very bad in close combat if the enemy has automatic weapons.
    #This weapon should be kept by the Rifleman instead of having a Carbine to start with.
    #A Signaller on the other hand should have this and his unchanged 30 rifle. Then the next 3 weapon upgrades make him better at shooting.
    I would suggest a change that the Signaller starts with the Carbine instead as a nerf so that you do not have a semi-sniper and the already most powerful Skill based unit in game.

    – M2 Carbine. Just as bad as the regular one except that it can pin better and the sheer number of bullets allow for a few hits at maxed rifle skill.

    – Garand Rifle. Fast shooting Springfield. Very powerful rifle in the hands of an experienced troop. The somewhat lower effective range is easily compensated by the ROF and balanced magazine.

    – T26. WIKI says(popularly known as the Tanker Garand) that it was just a shorter regular Garand.
    What looks more like the game on is this= T20; M1 Garand variant; select-fire conversion by John Garand, capable of using BAR magazines.
    This would be the version with the larger magazine.
    And there is this version; T22 ; M1 Garand variant; fully automatic select-fire conversion by Remington, BAR magazine-fed.
    Lastly would be a weapon similar to a regular BAR with better accuracy and range.
    #In game this is currently the ultimate US non sniper Rifle through = Damage, Range, ROF and mag size.

    Marksman weapons are all good as is. Perhaps he has to high of an overall ROF considering that he can easily eliminate enemies without much effort and a high speed once maxed out in weapon and rank.

    Gunner weapons:
    – The staring Lewis-Gun is similar bad to a Pistol. It is virtually impossible to do anything with this but pin enemies and it can not even do that so good due to its rather low ROF and Mag Size.
    #Increase hit chance at short range.
    All other Gunner weapons seam OK. The Jeep HMG has a very low ROF, very low and no pinning ability so it seams.

    #1164

    urbzz
    Keymaster

    I don’t agree with the m1 drama recently. Statistically wise it is within its specs. It is a carbine, it is a light caliber so the contrast with the springfield might be considerable for some individuals. Expect half the effective range and triple the rate of fire. Case closed for now.

    The common denominator right now is the close range bonus. I do agree that this need to be implemented. But I must warn you citizens of the urb, the beauty of mnb3 is that allies and axis share the same rules when it comes to ballistics. If we get a considerable buff for close range, the Germans will have it to. And this, you need to introspect yourselves as if you are ready for such challenge. I can see already my usual 2 or 3 emotional testers 😉 flocking back to the forums after being turned into swiss cheese by a mp40 buffed by the almighty cqc buff.

    t20 yes not t26 my bad. Good catch.

    So sarcasm aside, cqc will come in and smg’s will have a aim buff which mean that they will take less time to aim.

    #1168

    Hyyppa
    Moderator

    Regarding the weapons:

    Indeed, pistol isn’t particularly good weapon. The perhaps underestimated thing about it is the rate of fire. A medic with a pistol is surprisingly good fire suppressor in a section otherwise using Springfields. It pins fairly well and if given enough time (which medics usually have), it scores a hit here and another there.

    Shotgun is quite brutal point weapon. Charging a trench filled with riflemen when backed up by fire support is deadly combination. Experienced men can get quite long range shots in, although I don’t find that particularly strange. Considering how small, far away and fast moving targets modern day Trap-shooters hit, a seasoned veteran of the 4th Armoured should not have much trouble hitting medium distance targets.

    I feel Sten and M3 are almost identical weapons. Both function as close-range killer like the MP-40 or as long-range fire suppressor. Thompson on the other hand ignores the long-range fire suppressor role and just outright murders everything at any range.

    Regarding rifles we have the good old Springfield and M1 Garand, high effective range and high damage. Precision and damage combined together. The M1 Carbine is a bit disappointing. The 50% lower effective range and three times the rate of fire are something I dare to state as terrible in our current battle environment. I feel that this is a downgrade from Springfield and upgrade from Sten or M3. The MP-40 everyone seems to fear so much likely has enough effective range to just pump a Carbine user full of lead without even trying. Fighting SMG’s and machineguns require long-range rifles. Riflemen can be fought with weapons like SMG’s and the Carbine. I find the former more threatening than the latter. Although we have the wild card, Gewehr 41/43 with carbine rate of fire but rifle accuracy and damage. That is a dangerous adversary. I’ve tested the M2 Carbine and T20 too little to say anything about them.

    Marksman and gunner weapons all feel quite good and balanced to me. Gunner is not hitting much but that sort of isn’t his job, regardless of the weapon used.

    And the game lacks close quarters bonus? No wonder I had men with Carbines standing few meters from pinned enemies without hitting them. I feel that there are two options: Either we leave the game without CQB and at least we testers abandon carbines or we add the CQB in and deal with MP-40 killing people as it should. I am largely fine with both options.

    #1177

    Tyrud
    Moderator

    We could certainly try seeing what the CQB bonus would be like and go from there, considering SMGs on both sides seem to destroy the opposition if you put people next to each other.

    #1179

    urbzz
    Keymaster

    Then so be it friends. 🙂

    I shall code that tomorrow after work then. May God help us all.

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by  urbzz.
    #1182

    Anomie
    Participant

    Will the CQB apply to all weapons or just SMGs? Also, is the CQB range going to be X pixels or a percentage of the soldier’s weapon range?

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