Officer Suggestion Discussion

Activity Forums Mud and Blood 3 Suggestions Officer Suggestion Discussion

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This topic contains 13 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Mo-Tah 1 year, 5 months ago.

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  • #4251

    One Kidney
    Participant

    Let’s talk about the Officer. Right now he feels like the “worst” unit, he doesn’t have a clear purpose, and the abilities he has are lacklustre.

    To restate what I have said before, the officers play style is too “slow”. What I mean by this is that the officers passive ability does not work in the games advancing format, and he has a very “reactive” skill set. By the time you can make use of the officers passive all enemy units are already dead or dying.

    The first skill unpins your units, this in theory sounds fine if a little underwhelming. It sounds like it should be used when you are under fire and you need to haul ass out of there, unfortunately in practice when you are in this kind of a situation your men are at low moral, so when you use this ability the units un-pin for a second then are re-pinned when they are next shot at. This renders the ability useless.

    The second skill restores a unit to 100 moral. This again is not a bad skill to have, but overall is underwhelming. This skill would not be a problem if the rest of the officers skill set was more useful, but I think it could be done in a better way and I’ll get to this later.

    The third unit calls in the Stuart tank, again the main problem with this is that it is too slow, and that there is no control over it at all (this can be worked around by good play). By the time it gets to your units the firefight is normally over, and it spends a lot of time faffing about when trying to push up with it. It seems to take a quick tea break every 2 mins on it’s way up the map, even when the map has been cleared on advance.

    To top this all off, the officer requires a lot of time before he becomes useful. On promotion he downgrades with the pistol lowering the overall kill potential of the squad, so the officer in theory requires 4 further level ups to start to become useful, 1 weapon upgrade and 3 skill upgrades to the tank (the only skill that is truly usable). I imagine this was to allow for his passive, but unfortunately the passive is not used.

    Compare this to every other unit, there is normally 2 “useful” skills and one situational, and every first skill can be considered a “useful” skill (the gunner is the only one to possibly be situational, but this skill fits in thematically with how he should be used).

    When compared to the medic has a similar drop in combat effectiveness, but his passive effect is useful from the get-go making this drop even out in overall effectiveness.

    So originally I stated that the officer has no clear purpose unlike the other units, I feel that this is due to the ineffectiveness of his skill-set, instead of a thematic oversight.

    I get the impression that the officer is intended to be the man to lead the charge when things are going well, and get the men to safety when things go bad.

    My suggestions on how I think he can be reworked involve changes to all of his abilities, some more drastic than others.

    The passive:
    Having something that works when not moving goes against the core gameplay of mud and blood 3, pushing forward and advancing.

    My suggestion is to keep this passive simple, mimic the medics healing affect in the officer. I think moving the moral “healing” aspect of the second skill into the passive skill in the form of that heals a small amount of moral over time. This gives the officer immediate effect that helps offset the drop in combat effectiveness.

    Skill 1:
    The first skill for unpinning units I think is still a good idea, but it needs to be effective.

    I suggest having this ability temporarily bring all units moral to 100 for a few seconds in a small area, this will allow for needed retreats and heroic final gambit charges.

    Skill 2:
    As I have suggested moving the moral healing to the passive, I feel this skill needs a re-work.

    It could be an idea to move the previous passive aspect to this slot, maybe having a temporary 10% increase in combat effectiveness (+chance to hit, -change to be it) for 10 seconds, although I am not sure how much this incremental bonus would be.

    I would rather see a 25% bonus to move speed for a few seconds. This would synergise beautifully with the officers first skill, allowing for flanks or hauling ass out of there. Thematically this would be more interesting to me and I have visions of charging over the last few inches of ground in a desperate rush.

    This could be a good thing or a bad thing, I’m not sure how hard it would be to balance.

    Third Skill:
    The Tanks main problem is that it arrives too late. I think if it acted a bit more like the jeep in the sense that it drives straight up to the officers position with no lolly gagging, and upon reaching that point the current AI takes over. Possibly it could move faster during this time, blasting forward in the highest gear before slowing down and hunting enemy’s?

    I’m not really sure how to balance this better as I don’t think the tank should arrive on scene right away, you are calling for support it should take some time to get there, but it just takes too long at the moment.

    I’d love to hear what other people have to say about the officer, I might be being too harsh on him haha.

    #4252

    Polarfuchs
    Participant

    I can agree with most of your points about the combat ability and overall lack luster abilities he has. But the officer has long term pay-off. If you are going up multiple maps a day, 4+ is where he shines. While Jerry charges at you with everything you have and support is on cool down a tank or some extra combat skill is great.
    The morale boost is best used in conjunction with the unpin skill, having your officer in a position near your best suppression or combat units and boosting their morale, this unit then, pins down the Germans while your squad gets up to take their shots, this is only a concept and may not work in all combat situation but the officer has always been a support unit, even back to the early days of MnB2.

    #4254

    Arise
    Participant

    This one is probably the most well understanding for the Officer, nice work there @onekidney

    In the case, Officer really need some more improve in future, we will see where he will come to. >o<

    Basically the Tank will not be click control, we try to use tank AI to build it. Then New tank AI work is under process, so we will see what’s up then. BTW, Tank support will never be fast like Jeep, you exchange the time with covering power. XD

    #4257

    Lance
    Moderator

    Good input @onekidney. Aside for looking only at the SKILLS I will give some more suggestions.
    Passive: Your idea of a constant Moral Boost like a healing aura is interesting but the max moral it can restore should not be more then the maximum moral the soldier currently has.
    Since there are lots of Moral Boosting things already in game this may be a over doing it.

    How about this one. Proper Planing >> As long as the Officer is on field and not down all skills by all allied soldiers recharge 10% faster.

    I would like to suggest a change in his weapons tree mainly because the Pistol (in my opinion) is utterly useless as is.
    Start with carbine right away and as the top weapon he gets this >> Johnson Model 1941 Semi-Automatic Rifle
    http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=328
    Stats wise better then the Garand through the 10 round mag vs the 8 and slightly faster firing rate plus faster reload time.
    OR the pistol needs some serious love in short range combat.

    Now to the Skills.
    1) Fight! (or some order like that). All soldiers get 100 moral, unpinned (if they are) and can not get pinned again. This last for 10 seconds then all previous stats return. That should fix the first skill a bit. Drawback is that since they can not get pinned incoming fire becomes very deadly.
    Lots of tactical uses this way from a sure retreat to blindly charging.

    2) Detailed Orders This removes one enemy reinforcement wave. Must be used within 10 seconds after the message appeared.
    Due to a rather long cool-down it should not break the game when you are many days ahead.

    3) Stuart Tank (improvements). As stated it takes to long to get to where the fight is.
    It should drive strait to the Officer but on the way may engage enemies without stopping.
    Then it should stay ahead of the Officer (reference point) by around 100 pix.
    Also it is a support and not part of your squad and therefore as soon as all your men are behind the finish line the game should immediately go to the options screen.
    Same with Jeep or any other future vehicle that is not under your command.

    #4260

    One Kidney
    Participant

    @polarfuchs I read your post last night and I took a few hours reflecting on what I have stated about the officer.

    You mention the officer having long term effect and having increased effectiveness the more waves you are advanced up.

    As for long term effect, I have to argue that the officer does not have a long term effect at this current moment in time. Yes the passive does build up the longer you hold position, but this effect is null on movement, a core part of MnB 3’s gameplay.

    Compare this to the long term effects given by the signaller through opportunity calls, these are actual effects that build up over time be it exp, reinforcements, or support drops. These all require an investment in time and a little bit of luck, but have a rewarding payoff.

    The officers investment in time and luck rewards you with being stronger when you have dug in, so not only does it require time and luck, but it has the added cost of not advancing. In my mind there are two theoretical situations in which this would be useful, when you are sieging and when you are being overrun.

    When sieging I noticed two things:

    -normally by the time the passive kicked in/started to ramp up the firefight was already over

    -this requires you to bring the officer to the front lines something a “support” unit does not want to be doing, as the officer requires such a high investment to get going you really don’t want to risk it all to a stray shot.

    When being overrun your squad is normally either pinned and therefore not making use of the passives bonuses, or retreating to a point at which you can hold at, losing any bonus stacked up. On top of this, by the time you do get to the point you are holding off you run straight back into the first problem of the passive not having built up by the time the defence is over!

    Your second point was that the officer begins to shine after advance 4 plus as he is able to call in backup and unpin important soldiers in the moment using both of his skills.

    Currently, I had made 12ish attempts at the gold star before mines were visible. In those attempts I played 3 games with the officer as my flex. In those games I was able to achieve an average of 6.5 advances. With every other “flex” unit I was able to achieve an average of 8-9ish. (Should be noted the tank died early in one of these runs, bringing down the average and this is a small sample size)

    I did not notice at any point a time where I felt the officer was not a drag to the squads effectiveness, I would hold up waiting for the tank to advance to us and build up the passive bonus, I was able to get a sweet 35% bonus at some point, but it was all for nothing as I did not encounter any units whilst I had this bonus.

    You state that you would use the officer to unpin your suppressing unit, I argue that you are better off just having a secondary suppressing unit (gunner) in reserve and use him to cover any retreats.

    Regarding the use of his skills I do not feel it is good enough to have to use two skills just for the first skill to “work”. Yes I can see the synergy and maybe I have been pampered in being away from URB for so long to think this should be changed.

    I 100% agree the officer should be a supporting unit, but I think it should also be noted that supporting units are starting to take in more active roles in MnB3 as part of the small squad. As we already have a “reactive support” in the medic, I think it would be more interesting to see an “active support” in the officer.

    I can see where URBZ was going with the officer, in theory he seems very valuable, but in practice I don’t see any of this value.

    @arise

    I think I should point out that I am really impressed with the new tanks AI so far, the first time I encountered an enemy tank I really felt I was up against a real obstacle and the ominous sound of its engine sent chills down my spine.

    I don’t want click control for our tanks (I realise I wasn’t too clear on this), and looking back on a speed increase isn’t needed (I was kinda spitballing by this point).

    I just want to see the tank getting to the engagement with a more direct route and less hanging around staring at the trees.

    #4261

    Arise
    Participant

    @onekidney

    Yes, when talk about the Tank AI, there are some problem.

    *First we set the tank will push forward, it can’t be too quick, as you might need the time to check around. Also your men need the time to handle the German, as they might have Panzerfaust. So we set the tank to slow down the advance speed.
    *Currently the tank will stop when engage with enemy, and this might be change in future patch, as tank is consider to moving to penetrate the enemy line.

    Currently we did not discuss about how tank AI to combine with Commander choice, but sure we will have some kind of setting for it.

    So then we have to think about how we can do on it. >o<

    #4265

    Joker
    Participant

    I would love to see the officer skills more connected to the signaler. Maybe nerving signaler aim terribly when no officer is around, because only our officer can read the map and get the correct coordinates for a strike. Also maybe reduce the cooldown for airstrikes/arty if you have an officer (I dont like arty/airstrikes much), because headquarter listens rather to an officer as to a green soldier.

    #4513

    Mo-Tah
    Participant

    One of the things I encountered with the little guy I’m not sure is.., Practical? Feasible? Realistic? At the start when things first began heating up(first map I believe maybe about 5 1/2 klicks in) lil Captain-Crap-my-Pants remembered he’d left a kettle of water boiling at home and REally tried going back home to turn it off!?! WTF?!? This is an Officer!! Sir Mr. My-Shit-Don’t-Stink, and he’s QUITTING?!?! 🙁 ..sheds new light on the ‘Moral Issue’…

      My Input

    An Officer/Signaler combo Should be both more lethal & effective, and possibly even provide a degree of ‘Control’ over the tank as far as Advancing/Halting are concerned, the Tank always keeps up & never goes more than 3/4 of a klick ahead. When the Tank shows up -{IF it ever shows up}- it comes right out the side to assist instead of being “dropped-off” at the start mark.
    2 Reasons; because it has the teams exact location(O/S combo) and it’s not an addition to the team, just a little help along the way.
    ..and speaking of being “Just Help”, Lance is right. When we reach our goal, unless that Tin-Can is gonna keep rolling with us, it’s all about Sayonara Homeboy! We’re outa here!! I aint waiting for Mr. Clanks-Alot, Veni Vedi Vici baby.

    Morale.., 🙁 ..yea that’s some hair-pulling shit right there. But… After an initial issue with his performance, once I got the team up and going they worked like a charm under his.., direction. ..of course he was always right there holding their hands so any accrued bonus’ held tight.

    #4612

    steven
    Participant

    Skill 1 : All unit unpinned, and unpinnable for 5 seconds, +25 morale to all units( without exceeding their maximum morale)
    Skill 2 : All skills’ cool down is reduced by half. If a medkit take 60 second after a single use, the activation of the ability will reduce the required time by 30 seconds. The reduction will always be 30 seconds for the medkit, half of total, not say, the current remaining time. If there was 5 seconds left when the skill is used, the time left would only be 5 seconds.
    Skill 3 : The tank stay a quarter of a screen in front of the officer, fighting off all enemies. of course this is not instant, and the tank will move side ways in a combat situation. However if there are no SPOTTED enemies, the tank will move forward and backwards in a straight line. The tank will retreat after it has defeated 10 enemies of any type, stayed for 2 minutes, or requested to return at the command of the player( one would want to do this if the tank has sustained serious damage)

    #5375

    The Lone Ranger
    Participant

    Maybe his passive would give off a faster moral regeneration

    #6223

    Polarfuchs
    Participant

    Nearly everyone who played Mud and Blood 3 enough knows that the officer is just underpowered and obsolete compared to the other available classes.
    His first two skills are usually never even used, the small buff he rarely gives is barely even worth it and it goes away as soon as you move, the only reason to actually go for the officer is if you really want that tank, but even the tank is not that useful.

    I suggest a rework for the Officer, as a motivational leader who is supposed to lead, inspire and assist your men he doesn’t do that well of a job.
    I have a few suggestion to things that can be done.

    1. turning the small buff into a static thing as long as your units are nearby, the higher rank your officer is, the stronger the buff.
    a. could probably make it so that the buff would be different depending on the unit receiving it, such as Medic healing a bit faster, Sniper getting more range and better saving throws and such.
    b. instead of just a combat skill buff, it could be other things, such as detection chance, saving throws and range.
    c. nearby units won’t panic?
    2. Officer being able to interact with other units in interesting ways
    (this will require more thinking and probably a completely different suggestion, would be nice to discuss it a bit more and see what the community thinks)

    3. the Officer being able to randomly do some actions like in MMB2, how often he does them should depend on his rank.
    a. random actions should have a low chance of happening, and really rare and useful ones should be even rarer.
    b. random actions might be things like: scouting a random unit somewhere on the field, giving a small amount of xp to a random unit (can’t be himself?), giving a major buff to one unit at a random lasting for maybe about a minute? giving morale to a low morale soldier at random, maybe more (feel free to suggest more in #mud-and-blood-3 )

    4. giving the Officer a unique passive ability that would make him really helpful, like everytime you advance (and you have a sig alive) you get one extra opportunity call.
    5. and now, to the skills, both of the first skills the Officer gets seem to be completely obsolete, which means they should probably be replaced, how exactly you ask?
    a. A skill like the Courage one, but stronger, such as not being able to get pinned for 30 seconds and during that have better saving throws (with like 3 minute cooldown?)
    b. instead of having the morale skill (Honor), give him a passive skill of slowly giving morale to nearby units, therefore being able to have another spot for a skill, and also keeping the ability to give morale.
    c. being able to directly buff a soldier for a short amount of time, stronger than the normal buff.
    d. skill similar to the all around defence order from mnb2, causing all units to instantly pick a random target and fire at it, but at a lower accuracy, useful for suppression and gaining the upperhand in a fight.

    So far this is all I have, will be edited when I have more!
    Feedback is welcome ( #mud-and-blood-3 )

    #6230

    Lance
    Moderator

    Why not post here? http://mudandblood.net/new/forums/topic/officer-suggestion-discussion/
    May I merge this with that topic?

    #6235

    Ariel Buzaglo
    Participant

    Of course, didn’t even notice that topic existed.

    #6241

    Mo-Tah
    Participant

    @Lance

    🙁
    . What happened?!? I came here looking for the “Merged Topic” and didn’t see it. ..now I gotta Double-Tab it….

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