Wed, Dec 6th '17 at 20h 10m 56s #6770
Forgot to mention the Kill Cards in the HQ/ Office.
Currently only 10 get displayed although more can be acquired.
Instead of having them lie in a line at the bottom of the desk maybe keep them all in a drawer.
That would be a bit more nostalgic.
By clicking the drawer a pop-up will allow you to flip-select through the card(s) you intend to use.
There is serious need to have a readily available small instructions booklet there.
Basic stuff like all available movements. Radio Procedures. Day and night factors.
This instruction booklet could be available during PAUSE in game.
A new Rooster would be nice where selecting Rangers allows for more options then what we have now.
Ordering Rangers to; Go to the Medical Bay to get Intensive Care. Heals 5 hp per day but the Ranger stays there till at 100 HP and is considered TASKED.
R&R; Regains a random amount of Moral and reduces fatigue by 20. Tasked for 5 days.
In this same window the Weapons and Items Locker would be good to have in order to equip your Rangers right there. I think I see that in the sketch.
Important here be a better overview and selection of all the available gear including stuff that is not yet unlocked so that players know what is all out there to grab.
Clicking through everything is kind of annoying right now.
This would remove the Choppa-Insertion-Flight equipping that was not player friendly since one could not go back in case he messed up with choosing the wrong Ranger or so.
Towards the actual Game UI.
Ranger Selection; Items Weapons, Orders….
A pop up, drop down bar at the bottom of the screen contains all Rangers with their weapons and items in selectable boxes as is now.
This way one does not need to select a Ranger first and then his item.
Instead of a Radio Log a Operations Booklet would be better.
Here on 2 sides (left and right) of this pop-up would be mission info on the left that updates itself and a full radio log on the right.Wed, Dec 6th '17 at 20h 38m 17s #6771
Looks great consider me hype. I like that you are running with the base kind of idea 😀 .Thu, Dec 7th '17 at 13h 51m 48s #6777
@urbzz I really believe that you should consider @reid ‘s opinion. I know that it’s Your game and everything comes down to you, but he makes some good points:
Pixel graphics are nice and fairly easy to make, but have their limitations, most notably it can be hard at times to make out what is it exactly that you see.
Other than that; the combination of pixel and vector hardly ever looks good.
I agree with Reid that simplified, “rough” vector graphics, that do not try going for photorealism, but more towards practicality and clarity are a way to go here.Fri, Dec 8th '17 at 2h 55m 39s #6779
Well, everything sounds perfect. I will stand and see how it goes.
*I like the Urb’s drawing about new interface, it looks nice.
*I am not really care about pixels or not pixels, as the Recon make me want to play because it is deep and full of challenge.
*Sure there goes with a lot of system thinking, but everything is tie together, so I can not give a useful suggestion before the Alpha can be understand how to work. I will wait for more detail.
Basic thing about Recon:
*Need more asset, this will make the searching more interesting, actually we have to admit somehow the searching in the Recon is too boring, because there are nothing in the AO. We need more useless asset and more useful asset, that should be the main thinking about the Recon AO environment. Something like house, abandon Trench, Tunnel, tower, Anti-Air station….etc. make the game much deeper, this will be one of the main factor we need, although I don’t know the limit about unity engine.
*The Intel system, well, I know the killing stuff is the main for Recon, but after all, Recon is Recon not Rambo. So the Intel should be more important, more then what current recon can give. Collect the old setting and new idea, Recon probably will need to put the Intel be a incredible resource, to make it better.
-Buy killcard like old one for sure.
-Give Merit, but I will suggest not like older to cost every Intel, just keep the cost high. This can avoid some player hate the ending result of tour, at least if you collect enough Intel then you can get next tour.
-Give EXP and same not to cost everything.
-Buy to know AO situation, it is buy to know. We know the old Recon will give you everything once you reach 100% of Intel in the mission memo. It make less sense, so we should always need to cost some Intel to buy the next mission detail, no matter you have 10000 Intel or what.
-Quick Task for SGT, spend some Intel then you can get a new SGT to get to your team. maybe need only one day, consider sometimes the new task will take few days and give you a fresh.
-Engineer to clean the AO trap, yeah although old setting and it had been removed due to bug, but I believe it is still a good thinking. Everyone will like to low down the trap effect, because it is so dangerous.
these is just some example. XD
*More item and item balance, Item is another factor in Recon, more important then weapon. I can go to mission without gun but can’t get down there without my item, so equipment lead another important factor to make Recon better.
-We need to rebalance some of item’s quantity and Bulk to make them more useful and worth to carry.
-More Item to make the game funny and more tactical thinking, the suggestion can be read everywhere in forum, I will not list here. If we can do this, Recon sure will be better.
-Make the medical equipment have more use, and different effect. ( Although maybe it will be hard to code)
*Sniping and Snatch, two of important skill for Recon squad. Snatch we already have, but sure it can redesign to get it better, detail maybe have to make some new thread to talk. Sniping, just like MNB3’s marksman. So some more HVT mission like kill NVA General can be achieved.
*Rebalance and redesign the Weapon system, Bulk somehow is not so important for heavy combat squad, I really don’t like the M60, because every Recon player will tell you when you want to kill then you take M60. I believe accuracy and reaction should be change for different type of weapon. To make every weapon have their real sense on the field, not just count the bullet. I will make a detail discussion about this on other thread, maybe later. But this can make more choice and tactical thinking for Recon.
*More Mission type, yeah, everyone know why this is important, no need to say more. there are millions of mission suggestion I guess, so we can talk about this later, yeah.
*Item using Design, something really user friendly so may more suitable for new player.
-Clean the equipment icon when it is empty.
-Give empty choice for every equipment slot, so you don’t need to carry max number slot of equipment which can make you walk fast and less noise also footprint.
-Add one more slot, it should be more happy for everyone not always limited the resource, so they can take more low bulk equipment.
*Special Event for AO, not just from the memo, use intel to know if there are some special event will happened from this AO. The event will be draw from the event bank, can happened more then one or be zero. Event have time, it will calculate the time when you landing or get into AO. The event example will be:
*Two NVA truck will go through from the east to the west after 18 Recon Hrs.
*A Squad of Counter LRRP will reinforcement this AO after 28 Recon Hrs.
*A Jeep Team will come from the south and might take the NVA commander after XX Hrs.
*XXX will by pass the AO from North to XX after 20 Hrs.
Unlike QRF is trigger to happened, this is estimate to happened, although something bad in AO may change their ETA. Maybe it will make more sense, I guess.
This is all I have currently, hope will be useful for you, boss. >o< ( @urbzz )Fri, Dec 8th '17 at 14h 10m 19s #6784
Towards the graphics discussion. Pixelate or not.
Personally I really like the 2 kinds of graphic inside the game itself.
The pixilated jungle is great to give that feeling of “almost everything looks fuzzy” out there.
No distinctive points of reference except sometimes rock formations or a terrain asset.
That is where non pixilated terrain assets come into play to get a fix point out there although some could be pixed where others not depending on how good it would looks.
Currently there are already both types but for consistency they should be uniform to being all pixeled.
The intensity of the pixel (grain size) should be small so that the game does not look to blocky.
On the other side I like that the People (Dog too, ect) are not pixel like since as a player it is important to be able to focus on them without getting eye sore.
Same goes for all the weapons and equipment.
All (or most considering if it serves an intended fog-of-war purpose) of the other aspects of the game should not be pixilated.
All things considering the FOB for instance. Especially the Office should not have pixel stuff unless it is useful.
The Operations Map is one of those things that could stay pixel like since that corresponds with the game AO.
Perhaps Intel Pics could also be pixeled since a clear pic of an objective/ person looks abstract and therefore better in a game.Fri, Dec 8th '17 at 18h 49m 01s #6785
All in all, the suggestions are good so far. I’m happy to see everyone is excited about Recon coming to Steam and that everyone is willing to help make it a great game. However, I think it should be noted that this thread should focus mainly on what should be changed or added to make Recon great for a Steam launch.
What I mean by this is that, while we certainly want to add things to Recon and expand on it, I think we should first focus on making sure the game is impeccable in terms of its UI, mechanics and style (without saying anything about the eventual bug hunting and grammar campaign we need to go on before the game’s launch).
Let’s start with the UI.
Currently, I think we all agree that urb is on the right track in terms of his Base as Main Menu concept and he should definitely keep going with that. All the parts he will be included have either been asked for before or have been requested in this thread or the Discord (Barracks, Helipad, Office etc.). Further good UI suggestions that have been made include changing up how you access a soldier’s equipment on the battlefield, such as using a hot key, or having all the equipment displayed once you’ve clicked on a soldier. Other improvements include some kind of instruction manual that you can refer to in game to get a quick rundown of basic mechanics and controls (details on the day and night cycle, soldier movement, etc.). This of course would be in addition to a tutorial (very important) and also could be organized via tabs that also allow the field manual/notebook to also include radio logs, mission objective reminder section, and a mission stats section.
Something I think that warrants a lot of discussion for urb’s benefit is the game’s style.
As a flash game, I think the combination of two different art styles, pixel and vector, works well. But as has been mentioned, Steam users will absolutely compare Recon to other things that are out there, and what is out there right now is mainly games with a unified art style (one or the other). Reid makes a good argument for a strictly pixel game, and as Kacpo notes pixel art is easier to make and modify, especially if you have a background in it. If choosing pixel art only, the question then becomes if urb should only include pixel art that was made by hand or if he can hazard also including things that were shrunk to look pixelized. It was mentioned that downsizing like this doesn’t usually look good, but the paintings in Minecraft are an example of it not looking half bad, though those aren’t necessarily supposed to look like anything. That said, Lance makes a good point that in the current style, you know something is important because it will be a vector asset sitting on a blurry pixel jungle. The vector assets are easy on the eyes and give the player a lot of information visually (where are my guys?, what weapons and equipment do they have?, what enemy position is that? What enemy unit is that and what are they armed with? What is an LOS blocker and what’s not [very important to be able to distinguish quickly]). In addition, there are great examples of top down, vector art games that look good and play great (a game called Heat Signature comes to mind, among others), though the disadvantage to this is that vector art is more time consuming and may require that urb bring on an artist or two.
Finally, we have the game’s mechanics
Once again, without discussing new additions to the game which are certainly coming, there have been good suggestions so far, such as giving the sniping and snatch mechanics another pass (one can always snatch). Something that needs a major overhaul is probably the intel, heat and merit system. Intel needs more uses, particularly on the tactical battlefield itself (Viet can be included under a new ‘Intel’ skill) and heat should be dissipated in more ways than just passing days (either by doing stuff in AO or doing missions elsewhere). Also, while it is certainly funny to have a 90% tour renewal chance fail, it’s not as funny when you consider it’s actually quite hard to maintain that merit level in spite of all the memos. A good suggestion was made to give your higher ranked Rangers officer and sub-officer tasks that can help you deal with those pesky memos and avoid getting wrecked too much in that department (could be urbified of course).
urb is on the right track from what we’ve seen, and to help him continue along the righteous path, this thread’s posts should seek to answer the following questions:
What improvements to the UI and controls can be made to make the game good for Steam and more user-friendly?
What art style should urb focus on, pixel or vector?
What good examples of either have you seen on Steam?
Have you seen any examples of both being combined successfully?
Are there systems that exist currently that can be improved or changed in ways that would be better or would be more intuitive?Fri, Dec 8th '17 at 23h 39m 46s #6786
Thank you very much for you input folks. I’m very happy to see that Recon have such a special spot in your hearts.
Let me answer a couple of questions and formulate some opinions. Again, nothing is final and if you feel you have something to say let us know, this process to be inclusive.
The engine being used right now is lua based love2d, its alright since its close to C++ but I’m still experimenting.
Pixel art is definatelly the way to go. Like Reid say old school non photo realistic is easier to pump out, gives the game a c64 feel (a time where games were harsh)
My main gripe in Recon was the way the action menu was. A lot can be simplified and since we are out of flash right click is possible. What i have in mind is left click to move or left click on an interactive item to accomplish the most probable action (erase tracks, search a dead body, pick up a ranger) right click would bring a radial around the ranger and actions would be available which include items.Sat, Dec 9th '17 at 4h 24m 39s #6788
I’m no veteran at Recon (I’ve only played about 10 hours), but something I have a problem with is the obstacles mechanic. What I mean is the mechanic where you can walk over obstacles like rocks for example. It makes it really difficult to tell if you are actually in it and receiving a bonus (like a trench providing cover) or if the line of sight is actually cut off (like a rock in front of your ranger). I’m not sure if this would be very time consuming or not, but its just my recommendation, after all it is your game urbzz. Good luck with the steam release, can’t wait!Sat, Dec 9th '17 at 17h 56m 49s #6800
Incredible feedback indeed.
urbzz made a question if the Viet Skill should still be called that or changed.
Initially it was to just being able to talk to or better persuade villagers and for interrogation but since it evolved to include Searching for Intel maybe another name would be better indeed.
after a lot of unproductive internet searching for something else …. naaa it is good as is.
Viet perfectly describes what it does.
Speaking of skills. Radio is currently to hard to operate with a skill level under 3.
As soon as you lose your designated RTO man before having another one the game is a lot harder due to getting radio skill fails like 80% of the time.
The Medic Skill could use more uses like limit Dehydration (Hot day event) or similar.Sat, Dec 9th '17 at 19h 03m 24s #6803
Right clicking for item options sounds like a super solid idea. Like if the flash game had that right now It would feel much more smoother just playing in general.Sun, Dec 10th '17 at 0h 20m 57s #6805
What is the in-game battlefield UI going to look like? Will it be top-down or more isometric, a la Fallout 1+2, Soldiers: Heroes of WW2, etc?
I wouldn’t mind either, as long as you can zoom out (or add arrows along the side of the screen that show where and what an enemy is) if it’s top-down, but if it’s isometric I feel there should be a way to change your POV (so you’re not just locked in one direction all the time).
Either way, I’m psyched Recon is going to be overhauled! I actually have a Notebook of suggestions I had for Recon, so I’m definitely gonna be posting those soon!!
Duty now for the future!Fri, Dec 15th '17 at 3h 13m 06s #6844
I have 1 question about the thing of MnB Recon going on steam. If Urbzzz and his team accomplished the process of having Recon on Steam, would the Recon game on the website be terminated? Also, until the quest of putting Recon on Steam complete, will there be any updates to fix such bugs like the flying VC and NVa due to explosive and the supply drop glitch?
Wed, Jun 20th '18 at 15h 09m 00s #7909
- This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by Mikey Tran.
Only one suggestion:
Maybe incorporate some type of indication as to where various in-game sounds are coming from. Perhaps this would be most applicable to enemy voices and vehicle engines. In a jungle combat setting I imagine that experienced persons would be able to determine, to some degree, the location of enemy units based on the noise they create. Colored bars that flash along the edges or corners of the screen would suffice without giving away too much information, and without cluttering the UI. The accuracy of this effect would scale well with the spotting skill.Thu, Jun 21st '18 at 1h 11m 32s #7912
I would love to test as well.
Have a office with command staff that make memos appear more or less frequently.
Logistics: a good staff member makes logistics memos appear less often
Liaison: a good liaison officer makes leaks happen less often
Chaplain: a chaplain makes random events less likely and moral is boosted based on his connections with God
Each game start, tour, and rank allows you to chose between 2-5 office staff or keep the old one to increase his effectiveness.Thu, Jun 21st '18 at 5h 22m 27s #7914
1. Make the m79 a secondary and an item
2. Flares: lights up an area about one screen wide making it almost as good day(for spotting purposes)
3. Campfires: at night groups of VC need to create a campfire to make a light source
4. Search lights/Flash lights: give every 10th VC a flashlight to look for rangers
5. Buildings/towns: mission out of 30-40 should be a town. basic square houses that block los and cant be entered by ranger or VC
1. add in the pistols and make them unique.
2. add the Mk 22 Mod 0 make it a starter weapon for newbies to get URBed trying to use them for the first time.
3. tutorial like the endless war 3 intro. https://www.kongregate.com/games/Vitaly/endless-war-3
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