- Wed, Dec 27th '17 at 16h 46m 08s #6945
This is urbzz channel on twitch but I am not sure if and how to watch the new Last Winter coding video again since it was a live take.
https://www.twitch.tv/urbanozorusFri, Jan 26th '18 at 3h 00m 52s #7097
Moving here to the proper topic:
Chatting with LWillter regarding cooking and such, and recalled that there was a cooking pot, wooden bowl and spoon in the OG last winter. So what about some liquid based foodstuff? Things like porridge and soups that give high level hunger satisfaction. Most of these could be made either cold (w/o fire and cooking pot, but less hunger and/or morale bonus, also you might get a nasty bug) or cooked (requires cooking pot and fire, but gives better hunger and/or morale bonus, less likely to get a stomach ache)
Carrot Soup/stew: simple: carrots, water. low level soup
Porridge: using wheat and/or corn and water. mid level
Vegetable soup/stew: carrot, wild corn, onions,beat etc. high level
Rabbit stew: Rabbit meat (or just meat) carrot, onion. High level(might also be cooked only, can’t serve cold)Fri, Jan 26th '18 at 14h 43m 31s #7098
In terms of liquid foods, your character would most likely cook some rubaboo (link). “Traditionally it was made of peas or corn (or both) with grease(bear or pork) and a thickening agent (bread or flour) and Pemmican for the meat portion”.
While that may be the way the rubaboo was ideally made, I imagine the coureur de bois tossed in whatever they had lying around and it varied highly in content. So let me propose this: Instead of having several food items each for carrot soup, potato soup, rabbit stew, etc. we just have a single item called Rubaboo that you can craft just by boiling some water. You can add ingredient items as you have them (if its like the old interface you might click on the ingredient then the soup) such as corn, grease, flour, pemmican, rabbit, etc. and the nutritional value of the Rubaboo will change accordingly. So if you don’t have a lot to work with, and you gotta chuck some moss in there for substance, you’ll manage to stay alive. However if one day you strike it rich and you can throw some meat in the mix your Rubaboo will be more rewarding.
A visual indicator of some kind for the player would make sense, so if they steal Rubaboo off someone else they know if its any good, and also so that as they make it in their own inventory they can keep track of its effectiveness. Thoughts?Wed, Jan 31st '18 at 3h 51m 29s #7126
Definitely like the idea of rubaboo! Does definitely streamline the process. But was wondering it it would still be worth giving it tiers: depending on what is put in, the rubaboo would be light, plain, or hearty.
Has anyone ever played Don’t Starve? In it, you can cook pretty much anything you come across, but is done by combining 3 foodstuffs, and different combinations yield different outcomes. I wonder if a similar system could be used for rubaboo?
Over in the campsite topic, Lance hinted at a spruce beer. I had just been thinking of the possibility of distilling things like apple ciders or similar alcohol, seeing as it is less likely for us to make things like whiskey or rum.Wed, Jan 31st '18 at 17h 20m 25s #7128
Been reading up on some historical New France stuff and am sorry that I posted lots of cooking ideas into the Campsite Topic thread.
Got of track. 😉
Here something that I like a lot and it was very common back then and there as well.
Bouillon to make a small soup. Usually a big cup full.
French stations should have these in their inventory.
It is basically a small ball of herbs and spices mixed with fat and salt and small dried meat pieces.
You dissolve the lump in hot or if must cold water to make a small soup.
In game it would be a stack-able item of very low wait and almost non perishable.
Nutritional value be moderate if hot and somewhat lower if cold.
Moral and Wellness boost if consumed hot. Great vs infections or at least it helps to get heathy faster then normal.Thu, Feb 1st '18 at 3h 31m 15s #7129
I like what Don’t Starve does with food combinations, and I think you’re right that something similar might work here. But here is my pitch for how cooking in general could work as well as for rubaboo:
1. Start a fire
2. Right click on the fire to access the cooking interface
3. The interface consists of two slots. You place a piece of cookware in Slot 1 to put it on top of the fire. With the cookware in, Slot 2 is where you place your ingredients.
4. Depending on what cookware you use you have X amount of space to hold ingredients. Lets say I place a pot full of water in Slot 1. In Slot 2 I chuck in some sliced onions. As soon as I put the onions in Slot 2, Slot 2 empties and the item is displayed somewhere else in the interface as an inventory of whats inside the cookware.
Additionally, a green progress bar is drawn above the item as it cooks (similar to a health bar indicating gaining health). When the green bar reaches the end, a red bar begins growing over it, which means the item is starting to burn. A fully red bar means the item is totally burnt.
When you think about it, there are 3 relevant attributes of a food in LW:
1. How much hunger it relieves immediately
2. How long it keeps you satiated
3. What other effects it has (mood lifting? mildly poisonous? deadly?)
I believe that the answer to these questions should be calculated based on what ingredients you put into a pot, or a pan, and how well you manage to cook them without burning them. I should mention that your cooking skill directly affects your ability to judge the status of an ingredient you are cooking. Meaning: If your cooking skill is quite low, you might not see a cooking progress bar above an item at all. So you’d be totally guessing how fully cooked something is. If your skill is average but not great, the progress bar is going to be inaccurate in proportion to your skill.
I know that is a lot of text and the system sounds complicated, but trust me when I say that it would be easier to explain visually than with writing like this. Ultimately this system would allow for food options far more complex than anything in Don’t Starve. This way, everything you cook is just as unique, dynamic, and potentially disastrous as everything else in Last Winter.
Some overall benefits of this system:
1. Minimal UI, and therefore easy to visually understand
2. No need to have tons of items to represent variations of common foods
3. Which allows us to focus instead on implementing a large variety of possible ingredients
4. Experienced players would be able to develop and share recipes with the community, because cooking would involve having the right ingredients, added in the right order, for the right amount of timeSat, Feb 3rd '18 at 21h 58m 30s #7139
I really like the suggestion and it opens up expanding on cooking tools beyond just teh pot.
And I believe I understand your concept. Have you heard of Overcooked? The game uses a similar system to the one you are describing. When food is cooked on a burner, a bar shows it’s progress until fully cooked. then a check shows it is ready. If the food continues to be left on the burner, a sign flashes and increases in speed, signalling that the food will soon be burnt. If left beyond this, the food becomes (wait for it) Overcooked>Sun, Feb 4th '18 at 0h 23m 24s #7140
Amazing meme! I haven’t heard of Overcooked but thats exactly what I was trying to describe! Hopefully I can make a nice drawing of the UI to really demonstrate the idea.Sun, Feb 4th '18 at 10h 36m 24s #7142
Overcooked makes meats heard like leather and veggies all mushy. 😉
You all start to make cooking in LW into a mini-game by itself. This is somewhat turning into a Minecraft crafting thing. Bit to much I think.
A simpler version be more food states then there are now inc this Overcooking State.
A separate Cooking panel would be great however. There everything related could go including the eating (how to/ share with, ect) it part.
Fire making should still be a separate thing since fire can be used for much more then just cooking.
Therefore “cooking” does not require a fire per say but is needed to “upgrade” food stuff.
Here a few states-of-food that come to mind.
p.s. Any food stuff could have a random amount of nourishment and satisfaction since not everything is equally the same. Welcome to pre-industrually produced foods.
Raw = Fresh but uncooked. Some food stuff is perfectly fine this way like berries but meats will cause you problems.
Time consumption; Very short/ depending on the situation. Having to bite meat out of a dead animal, due to not having a cutting tool, until satisfied will take longer.
Materials that can increase the “success”. Cutting tools, Utensils/ Bowl or Plate.
These “basic” cooking” tools always increase success when preparing meals or eating.
Dried / Sun baked? = Preserves lots of foods and some foods like Fish can be dried to make them not only preserved but also much more edible.
Drying foods works best in Summer (maybe for some stuff only) and Winter (again for some stuff). Also works best on Sunny Days and not at all during Rain unless you have a special place to do it in/at.
Time; Very, very long. Can take days. Maybe you can just leave the food stuff and come back later but it may have gone bad or been taken by someone/ something else.
May attract animals, Bears too.
re-cooked/ warmed-up/ re-heated = Mostly previously cooked foods that you manage to heat up somehow (can become overcooked or burned or even charred)
Not quiet as good as it was when freshly prepared but still about 90% of the previous values.
20% better then eating it cold.
70% regular full cooking time required.
Half-done = Foods that where either intentionally only half cooked for better preservation to later be finished cooking when needed or your character unintentionally got this outcome.
You can “try” to finish the cooking with the chance to get worse results.
60% gains out of this vs a perfectly cooked meal.
Well Done = 100% well made food. Enjoy!
Overcooked = Still 90% nutritious but only 70% enjoyable.
Burned / Ruined = There is still some good parts to eat but mostly not.
30% gains or a random amount. Perhaps it still tastes good and gives 90% on those specs.
Also a % chance to get sick a bit just like with Half-Done foods.
Charred / Total fail = Not even an animal would eat this.
If at all only about 10% will come from this. Reduces moral if eaten.
Might as well use the remains to fuel the fire a bit longer.
There was talk about a Cooking Bar so that the player could decide how long to cook food.
I am against such since it would make cooking a player skill thing instead of a character skill based thing.Mon, Feb 5th '18 at 15h 02m 11s #7149
Ah yes, good on Lance for dragging us back to the game we are playing. You’re right, we should keep the cooking in the realm that it is in to maximize unfairness.
I totally on board for having more variety to the level of cooking food, so as not to always have a toss-up between perfectly edible food and a pile of charred mush
I wonder if we could do something similar with uncooked food:
Fresh: Straight out the carcass, natures bounty. This is the best state to cook in, but also less likely for sickness (more on this later)
Day-old: Been exposed to the elements now, if it’s meat, you should probably cook it. Slightly less cooking success rate, but much higher sickness/worms rate.
Week old/Stale: Thing are not looking good. Either try to cook this now or just toss it. Very low cooking success rate, very high sickness/worms rate. (Desperate times call for desperate measures)
Rotten: Well, you had some food. Cannot be cooked. Guarantee of sickness/Worms. Perfect if you want to lose any of that extra winter weight.
So on the topic of eating [fresh] raw meat. I was initially also in the camp of thought that this would of course lead to sickness and is generally unsafe. However I recalled an episode of Survivorman with Les Stroud, where, after killing a dear, cut off and took a nibble of the the meat. He then went on to explain that raw meat isn’t as risky as expected. He says the risk comes from all of the chemicals/additives in processed meats meant to extend shelf life. These are not found in wild animals, and thus the meat is much safer:
“If you’re worried about parasites, then you should cook it. But one thing that surprises a lot of people is, you can eat just about anything raw. We don’t in our society because our meat goes from the slaughterhouse, to a packing facility, to a truck, to maybe another truck, to a shelf, to maybe another shelf before it ends up on the shelf you’re going to buy it from. Well, that’s not the meat you want to eat raw.
But when you’re out in a survival situation, or even maybe living Paleolithic, you can eat just about everything completely raw. There are a few things you don’t touch, like a polar bear liver—you can get vitamin A poisoning—but beyond that, all of that meat and various critters—you can eat it raw. And you get far more nutrients raw than if you cook it. Cooking is for flavor, and, when in doubt, killing parasites.”
So one would be able to (relatively) safely chow down on some freshly killed meat. Butonce it starts to sit for a while, it’s better not to.Mon, Feb 5th '18 at 21h 59m 17s #7155
Awesome continuation there. Next I was going to post states-of-freshness.
Currently eating raw meat in LW is also not so bad.
Personally I eat a lot of meat raw or better said non-cooked but well seasoned.
This includes forms of sea life (sushi, clams, ect) as well as land animal meats that get prepared to be eaten raw.
Most of these should be consumed shortly after preparation since they tend to spoil after several hours if subjected to open air and sunlight.Tue, Apr 23rd '19 at 18h 44m 53s #8968Sun, Apr 28th '19 at 15h 13m 13s #8978urbzzKeymaster
Very good link Lance.
On the raw meat topic. Although certainly full of nutrients, it is fairly hard to digest raw meat and your body will work way harder into nutrients and macro nutrients and process it. Some meats are easier to process by your digestive system such as fish but red meat is another story, especially wild red meat which requires a fair amount of enzymes to deconstruct.Mon, Apr 29th '19 at 14h 43m 36s #8980
Your explanation on how a human body reacts to raw meats is very informative.
A good basis for coding in effects of eating raw meat in Last Winter.
For a full overview of what those folks in the vid all got, here the direct link to their channel. This is basically a treasure chest of Real life Last Winter information folks.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr2d4As312LulcajAkKJYwTue, Jun 18th '19 at 5h 13m 09s #9058
I was wondering if we could make our own bread in the frontier without an oven and lo and behold it is possible with only our trusty kettle and a lil fire.
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